Leadership Is More Than A Title With Tony Sousa

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Leadership Is More Than A Title With Tony Sousa

Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining Tony and me here. Welcome to the show, Tony.

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited everyone has decided to join us for a little bit of time.

Tony, to get us started, one of the questions that came from the audience when I started advertising the episode was, tell us about your journey from leasing consultant to vice president of the company. Let us in on your journey a little bit. Tell us a little bit about some great things that you will learn along the way that someone could use if they want to follow a similar path.

I saw that question come into the comments early on. From LC to VP, there are a lot of years involved in this process. I don't have to tell anybody here. Where I am now may sound counter to self-help gurus and other things like that. I envisioned being here. I didn't take that approach. I knew I had a lot to offer, but at the end of the day, I was committed to giving a good day's work every single day and being optimistic about every opportunity that I had.

I’m trying to say yes to every request I received, and trying to do the best job that I could at every task I was asked to do. You look back, and I won't date myself too much here, but 20 years in times 365 days, here we are doing that. There are some weekends and a few vacations here and there. For anyone that is looking to grow their career in all different sorts of ways, that is the best advice I can give.

Some of my backgrounds, some people may know, some people may not know. I did start as a leasing consultant on the floor, and it was a big competitive community. My closing ratio wasn’t what it was in the end when I started. I had a lot to learn. I was afraid to ask for deposits like many leasing consultants. I didn't want to push them into a decision that I didn't feel they wanted to. I think I was probably nervous.

I did start on the leasing floor. When I visit sites and my properties, I love being able to interact with leasing consultants, those on the floor, and those in entry-level positions. Fortunately, I still have a good memory. It doesn't feel that long ago, although it was 17 or 18 years ago when I started. It still feels like yesterday to some extent. I could understand the pain points. I could relate that you are trying to close on deals and other things, and it is not happening.

It’s been fortunate that I have been able to be in every single role and in the role that I am in now. It allows me to have an understanding of the challenges of that role, which helps me empathize as a leader with their day-to-day challenges. It helps troubleshoot and help them work through some of their challenges as well. This a long-winded answer, but putting in a good day's work every single day and remaining optimistic that there is going to be a positive outcome that day will turn into positive outcomes for that week and month, and hopefully positive outcomes for the years ahead.



Tony, the next thing that I wanted to touch on is leadership. The whole social media and our lives are inundated by inspirational quotes from all things that are labeled as leadership. As a matter of personal opinion, there is a lot of information that doesn't help folks out there when they are aspiring to become leaders. It is more of a feel-good type of conversation that doesn't have a practical application in the real world. With that being said, I would like for you to get your take on what I said. Secondly, describe what leadership is to you. What does it mean to you? Who is Tony Sousa as a leader?

Today’s expectation is as leaders, we need everyone to like us, agree with us, and be on the same page all the time. My ongoing experience continues to be chiseled and made better on a daily basis. It is often in the adversity and sometimes in the disagreement in direction. It challenges us as leaders to be able to communicate that clearly to our teams. Holding our teams accountable is key, but as we have mentioned before, how that starts is me holding myself accountable to my own expectations and the organization's expectations and my teams.

If I'm not doing that in my heart of hearts, I have no right. Although maybe by title, I have some rights. The reality is they are not going to be wanting to be led by you. If they don't see the actions, desire, and purpose in you, you could tell them all day long, but it rings hollow to them. I'm constantly a work in progress on myself. The cliche term is we are all our hardest or worst enemies in some situations. That is true and okay to some extent. If I'm not working on myself and making myself more accountable and ultimately, a better leader, then they have no reason to follow me.

What has always been important for me, to break down the word leadership or leader, is there is no one in front. There are not a lot of people doing what we are doing. There is no North Star oftentimes in a situation. That takes a lot of resolve. It takes a lot of courage to plow ahead when there is no path blazed ahead. When you are responsible for that in your organization or in some ways, maybe in this industry, there is some level of anxiety that can come with that. You have to figure out how to process that, accept it and lean into it, and move ahead with courage and bravery.

On this call, we have some level of teams that are following and looking to us. The reality is we don't know what the future holds. We don't know what the next couple of steps ahead may be, especially in a tough ‘23. What we do know is that we are willing to stay together and stay linked together. We are going to trust and support each other. In doing that, the likelihood of us being successful as we go forward is very high.

I had an interesting comment from Jeffrey. He said, “Lead by example, not order.” What do you say?

It’s right on. I posted something like, “Leadership is not a title.” I believe that in my heart as a leasing consultant. I would probably go home and tell my wife, “I don't have the title yet but I'm a leader. I believe myself to be a leader.” What does a leader do? They set the example, as Jeffrey said. They do the right thing when nobody is watching. They see trends or things happening in the future. They are able to connect the dots to say, “This makes sense. Let's proceed with that.”

Sometimes you make a mistake and you learn a lot from those mistakes. You learn the most from mistakes in adversity. We all know this. I strongly believe that leadership is not about a title. We happen to be in titles because we have to form organizations with some level of structure. Most leaders lead because it is their passion and desire to lead. It is their gift to lead others.

I hope everyone can tell that none of this is scripted. It is okay to be a follower too. Even as a leader, I have bosses as well. That is a different skillsets. That challenges your level of humility and your ability to communicate to express disagreement in a productive and constructive way. That is probably for a different call. It is not as sexy as talking about leadership.

Followership, there are other good books and things like that out there. To be able to do both is a wonderful quality. In my day job and my life, I have a wife, and I'm often a follower there. I like to think as a leader at times, but I could do both well. Given the gifts as a leader, you are sometimes called, and you have to accept the calling.

Scott is asking, “What are some good leadership books or podcasts you have found to make a good impact on being a successful leader?”

There is a whole bunch out here. There is a handful of guys on this that give a long list. Mike is looking at his library of leadership books back there. One particular book that changed my trajectory was a book by Doug Conant. He was the former CEO of Campbell Soup. It is called TouchPoints. I read that ten years ago. The main thesis of that book was, oftentimes, as leaders and managers, we think of these soft conversations or interactions with our clients. Thanks, Mike, for timing in on that. There is some great stuff there.

We often think of these soft conversations or check-ins like, “How are you doing? What is going on here? What is going on there?” Sometimes we think of that as babysitting or “I don't have time for that. I have to get to email and work on a report” or whatever I need to do. In our minds, we have created what we think are good leadership tasks. We are very task-oriented oftentimes.

In my own success and those that I have seen incredibly successful as leaders, they are often the most thoughtful and empathetic people to their staffs, and they care. When you show your teams you care about them as humans, they are more inclined to listen to what you have to say about where we need to go. That is one particular book.

There are a lot of podcasts. I'm a big fan of Simon Sinek. I love raw and authentic conversations that are totally unscripted. That allows me to formulate my leadership style. I do a good amount of reading, and I love to take feedback in all sorts of ways. Sometimes I do like to spend some time in my head a little bit, and in my observations, and trust my intuition about what is right.

Years ago, people were like, "Is he putting quotes together with his sig on it?" The connection for me is I have something to say, or I have the ability to phrase it in a way that means something to me. It is important for everyone to know that most of the stuff that I push out is usually to inspire, encourage, or remind me of something.

Over the last few years, post-pandemic and through the pandemic, people have been drawn to this. I have realized that many people are going through what I'm going through too. It became this massive community of relatability that stemmed from my willingness and courage to say, “I have something to say, and I'm willing to say it. You don't have to engage with it. You don't have to like it. You can unfollow me. I hate to see that, but you don't have to hear that. Those things were for me to encourage me.”

Put it on paper in some ways, as we are all encouraged to do. For me, LinkedIn can sometimes be my journal. I appreciate people relating, chiming in, and supporting along the way. The level of hate is 0% online. I can't say that for Facebook or other channels. On LinkedIn, it is all love. It has meant the world to me. It energized me to give back to that same community because many people have given to me. It is my responsibility. I see it now. Many of you believe this as well. It is our responsibility as leaders, thought leaders, and others to be able to pay it back and give it forward to the next group that is coming up.

I want to pick up on the part where you said, “I might not have the title but I know I'm a leader.” My definition of leadership simply put is leadership is influence. It is not a title. Do you agree with that? Anybody can influence other people. You don't have to have a title.

Influence is a whole bunch of different things. We could give a technical Google term to that. Influence is somebody acknowledging your desire or passion for what you believe. They are willing to consider your beliefs in that, and they are willing to try it. The word influence is caught on by influencers. It is all weird now. The reality is the most effective leaders in business and life, regardless of title, are some of the most influential people that you will ever meet. They are most passionate about what they believe. They are articulate and great communicators.

Because of those qualities, even more than great communicators, they are most passionate. We are drawn to passionate people that believe in what they believe. It is why we are drawn to brands and other things that do a great job of humanizing themselves and expressing what they believe. We are drawn to that as human beings, and we need to continue to be okay with that. I think we are. The number of names here and seeing the faces shows some of that.



As I was saying at the beginning, this is about everybody that participates here. It is not about you and me having a conversation about what we envisioned we should have. We have been inundated with questions and comments. Are you ready to go and roll?

You and I both know. We talked about this, and we have seen some semblance of this format, but I love this. First and foremost, let me thank you for joining us. You all have busy agendas. You have meetings now that you had to shift around. You are spending a little bit of time with AD and me. Together as a community, I want to say a heartfelt thank you. This has nothing to do with my ego, status, or thoughts.

We are grateful for your time and your connectedness in the community. Many of you are in my DM box. We are friends and connected. We thank you for that. This is why we did it. It is to answer any questions that you have from any guys like me, AD, or anyone else that wants to chime in and give some feedback. This is a collective group discussion. I'm here for it. AD, let’s get this rocking.

I'm just going to double down to say that I'm grateful for everybody that took the time. It is amazing to see you all here. We have a comment from Ali, “There is a vast difference between a leader and a manager. You can be a leader without having the title.” What's say you, Tony?

This is what we have been talking about. By definition, a manager is to manage things. It isn't necessarily to lead things. We talk about football. That QB is a great game manager. It means that he is not turning the ball over. He is making safe plays. He is doing it by the book or by the policy. If he or she does that, we will be okay.

There is something good about being a good manager. Don't get me wrong. I don't think it is leader versus manager. There is something great about being a great manager of things, keeping organizations and people organized. Successful businesses do a wonderful job of that if they do a great job structuring their organization and bringing the right people in place. There are degrees regarding organizational business management as well.

A leader is a little bit different. You can be a great manager and a great leader. Often, good leaders are good managers, but I wouldn't say all the time they are great managers. Great leaders sometimes think differently. They are wired a little differently. They could be high-level. When I think of a manager, I think of the devil in the details. They are organizing and manage the details. Sometimes, for great leaders, that is not their best skillset.

Here is another one from Candace, “I love learning from our leaders. Learning what we like and do not like. Taking those things we like, incorporating them in ourselves, and leaving the things we dislike behind.”

That’s a great point, Candace. Thanks for chiming in. Especially as we grow in our careers as managers or leaders, we try to emulate or be somebody we like. That can often be dangerous for us. What it doesn't allow for us is to tap into ourselves to find out who I am as a leader. Who am I as a manager? It is okay initially as you try to emulate because, at some point, you are trying to figure out who you are as a leader and manager. We are all in that process. Some of us may be a little bit more advanced than others with experience.

Having some role models is good, but at some point, you are going to have to make that decision to say, "Who are you? What do you believe?" Candace makes some good points there. Some great managers and leaders that I have worked for, I disagree with them in some situations, but I always remembered and took note that when I'm in a position of influence or leadership, I will conduct myself a little bit differently in that situation.

That is okay. It is no disrespect to them. We are uniquely ourselves. The greatest gift that we can give is to tap into that more. The sweet spot I'm finding myself in now is having more courage, and leaning into more of who I am and the gifts that I have to offer both the world, personally and professionally. It is an exciting place to be. It feels like you are in the clouds a little bit, in some ways, from a confidence standpoint and a belief in self. Things will try to get you down, but when you find that cerebral place to be and believe in yourself and your confidence, it is a good place to be. I encourage everybody if they haven't found that spot to keep searching for it. You will find it.

Here is another one, “I'm in a situation where I don't have career development. I want to grow. How do I know when it is time to move on from your current leaders?

There are a lot of variables there. The best advice I will give to anybody here is in your heart and mind, when those are connected and share the same message that it is time to go, you need to listen. Before you get there, hopefully, you are taking the extra time and effort to speak to your supervisor or manager to talk about some of your frustrations, how decisions are made, or what the culture is.

Make sure you do your due diligence in that process. That is always the best and most professional way. If you extend every resource you can to try to improve the situation, and the people around you that you trust and love are telling you things, and your heart and mind are telling you things, at some point, you have to listen. It takes courage to listen to that because you may be in a role that you have been in for a long time, but you do have to listen to that. As many of you know, I left an organization that I was with for quite a while. I wish them well, but opportunities arise. Looking back on it, it has been one of the best decisions I have made, although it’s hard.

Tara, you are next. Unmute yourself and ask your question live.

There are some good people on this call. Tony, I wanted to refresh your memory on the interview that you did for me a few years ago. One of the questions I asked you was about your mentor. You said that you have many mentors, and what you appreciate is their honesty and their willingness to tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear, which is poignant. I'm curious. Along your journey, what is something that you needed to hear that has helped you?

Tara, it is great to hear from you. I will be honest with the audience. At times, what I needed to hear was that my sh*t does stink. What I mean by that isn't a persona, but a decision where I think very highly of my opinion of something. At times, I have had mentors say, “You have made an articulate point, but I think that you have blinders on here, and you are wrong. This is why.”

Somebody who believes in themselves, and most of you on this call have a level of self-belief, can sometimes cloud your ability to see all angles. You get into this tunnel vision of, “I'm right more often than I'm not. I have never made a bad hiring decision. My track record has been great over the years.” You are sitting pretty. Your assets are performing at a high level. You start drinking your own Kool-Aid or believe your stuff doesn't stink.

You need those people in your life professionally and sometimes personally to say, “You are wrong. This is why.” If there is any credit that I do give myself, it is my willingness to listen and apply that feedback as quickly as possible, even if it is incredibly uncomfortable. A lot of the feedback sometimes is uncomfortable, especially when you are growing and stretching in your career. Oftentimes, it leads to the greatest successes. I think many on this call would agree.

I have an amazing question here from Ken, “Tony, I agree with your quarterback metaphor. Regardless if you like him, Tom Brady is the definition of a leader and a manager. He tosses on the power of figuring out that balance. It’s easier said than done, but he will go down as the best ever more than likely. It is a cool way to look at both sides.”

You have to be both to be most successful in what you do. Sometimes leaders need to get back into being a bit more structured and organized. You can get pulled in a lot of directions. You have to be a big thinker and a visionary guy. At my level and many other levels, I'm dealing not even with my own company but I'm saying with clients and others. They are high-level visionary guys. They don't want to get stuck in the details. That is okay. Sometimes you got to be careful about getting in the weeds too deep. You also have to be dangerous enough to know the weeds.

That is important because it means a lot to your team that you understand the weeds. You may not do it day to day. You may not use the same systems, software, or logins, but you understand what they are doing. When they come to you and say, "I got a bottleneck. I got some issues." You cannot just brush that off like it is no big deal. You have to listen. You have to have some level of not only empathy but also context and working knowledge of what they are talking about.

David, would you like to ask the question?

It is good to see you all. Thanks, Tony and AD. My question is let’s say you have a team of five leasing consultants. Maybe the best leader on that team is not the best salesperson. How do you handle that situation? How do you promote them? How do you handle the best salesperson? We always hear, "Maybe the best salesperson isn't the best leader."

The reality is everybody is not great at everything. I'm not great at everything. We could spend the next hour of me talking about what I'm working on. I look at all your wonderful faces and names, and the reality is there are great strengths that each of you has, and there are probably notable weaknesses. Whether you have disclosed them, whether your supervisor knows them or not, and whether you are willing to admit them yourselves, that is the reality. We are all human about that. The quicker you embrace that, the quicker you can get better at them.

To answer your question, David, how do you stack this team? It is a sales team. You are a great leader, but you cannot close a deal. What is the issue? As a supervisor of that team, you have to see each one of their unique gifts and abilities. If they are a great leader but they are not great closer, you got to find out. Are they afraid to ask for the business or ask for money? What is going on? You can find that out over coffee. They were like, “I love to lead people, but I'm afraid to ask for something. It goes back to when I was a kid.” You end up learning all these things about them.

In my own experience and the great leaders that I have observed, they take that nuanced approach to their team to say, “You are wonderful at 9 out of 10 things, but that one thing that is also important to this job, I see that you are falling behind. What is happening is as a leader, you are losing the respect of your other team members because this is a sales job. I want to support you and help you as a coach elevate your game there so that your peers continue to respect you in that leadership role because that will only strengthen your leadership.” I don't know if that answers your question precisely. It is a real-world situation that we often face. Building dynamic teams based on a group of different skillsets often make some of the most dynamic teams I have been able to build. It is a great question, David. Thanks for sharing.

The next one comes from Mike Webber. Mike, would you like to go? Ask your question, please.

In the last couple of years, things have been frothy and moving fast. We have been riding this wave. Right now, things are a little bit tighter. There is some negative news, and whatever the headwinds might be. I would love to hear how that changed and how you are spending your time, focusing more on people, recruiting, and retention. Focusing more on making sure that your operations frontline teams don't feel overwhelmed. Have you riffed on 2023 and how you are spending time based on some of the headwinds that we are facing in multifamily?

I had got some texts from a supplier that were like, “Why is everybody canceling this program? What is going on?” It is a real thing. It is only going to get tighter and tougher. On the operator side, coaching my team, we have had some early discussions in quarter four about what may potentially happen in 2023 and being honest about what we see ahead, and then working together and collaborating as a team, and brainstorming about how we can address some of these issues before they arise, proactive strategies. When they do arise, as a team, how do we want to set the expectation of how we handle and communicate them to clients or each other?

Doing that helps that team understand, “My boss understands the challenges that we face ahead. I'm glad he gets it that it is not going to be rainbows and puppies ahead.” They appreciate us being willing to talk through tactics, not strategies, that we can implement either proactively or in real-time as it occurs. We have them already designed and discussed a tool kit. We go to this as a mechanic goes to his toolbox or a doctor goes to their supplies to counteract something that may be happening in real-time, whether in a car or in a body or whatever analogy you want to use. You are prepared for whatever is ahead.

We are all fortunate that maybe not all, but many of us have been in this business through a couple of different cycles. A lot of the cycles are similar. What is going to happen in 2023? We know it. It is going to get tight. Expenses are going to get pulled back, expectations of occupancies are going to grow, and get the rent growth that we have seen in the past. Owners, developers, and clients are going to want that. We are going to try to have to deliver to our best ability the highest occupancy and the greatest rent growth given our submarket conditions.

When we are not achieving those things, we need to make sure that we are talking about them as a team and articulating them to the clients and others about what is happening. Some of the best innovations and successes come from adversity. I can speak for myself. My own personal and professional confidence surged in the midst of a pandemic. It is not that we are facing another pandemic, but we are facing a potential recession ahead. The best and brightest minds and hardest working and smartest working people will emerge as they always do from tough times and potential recession ahead.



It is a long-winded answer, Mike. It is a great answer. You and all of us are wrestling with how we prepare our teams. How do we equip them, and how do we survive in some ways through the bumpy terrain ahead? Everybody on this call will if they are willing and dedicated to getting gritty and being patient. You will see yourself on the other end. You will see yourself better and more resilient, and maybe a few more gray hairs, but you will find that you like yourself better on the other side than maybe you do now.

Damian Mills, I saw that you had a hand raised. Would you like to ask a question, Damian?

Thanks, Adrian. I wanted to see if there were any tips you had for hiring beyond the resume for maintenance, in general or office staff. A lot of times, I tended to get people that look great on resumes. You meet them in person, and they sound great. They do great for the first three months, and after the insurance kicks in, you get to meet the roll-down.

I'm going to let AD answer some of this on the maintenance side. David, cover your ears. I don't like resumes or a piece of paper. If you work with the service or maybe with David, they can make your resume look amazing, which is great. It is good to have a good resume. It will help you to some extent to get you in the door.

I will back up a couple of steps. I was an investigative journalist. I would talk to government officials, politicians, and many people with big egos that were unwilling to tell me probably the straight truth. My job was to figure out the straight truth about things. Often, asking a direct question to them about a situation would not get me the direct truth because they would bob and weave. They would spin the answer.

I discovered as a journalist, the best way to get some of the answers that I need to know, Damian, which is what you are trying to get to on this hiring process, is how I can get to know them. It is to ask questions consistently for any HR folks on the call and ask the same questions to everybody, but ultimately to listen well to the answers to your questions, and to be as agile and versatile in your replies to their answer. The subtleties of their answer will put them in a situation. They will be forced to be as honest as they can be because you have now put them in an interview situation where they have not prepared for these questions.

All night last night, in the mirror, they prepared for, “Tell me three things about yourself. Tell me about a situation where you disagreed with your manager.” You can google these questions. When you start asking them questions that are based on their answers in a nuanced way, and in a way that shows them that you were listening to every word they were saying, and you ask them thoughtful questions to elaborate a little bit more about a situation, and then also let them know that you know some context of a situation, especially those who are not being honest with you, they become very unsettled. You could see it in their face and body language unless they were bipolar or had multiple personalities. Most people don't. They get very uncomfortable.

The ones that are authentically genuine and have wonderful stories enjoy these conversations because they are a wellspring of honesty. They tell you what you need to know. Much of it is a refreshing interview. It is honest, authentic, and real. The stories and experiences they usually provide you are amazing. You were like, “How come I didn't find you before?”

You will also find a smaller percentage of people that are caught off guard by your ability to listen and ask questions they were a bit unprepared for. In that situation, unless they are good at lying, they will stumble into an answer that will be alarming to you. Damian, you have to hear those answers that are alarming and say, "That was a concerning answer.” I have had people tell me, “I just no called, no showed.” I was like, “That wasn't a good idea. What did your supervisor say about that? He was like, “They weren't happy about it.” I was like, “They probably weren't.”

They don't realize that their answer to that question checked them right off the box for me, but I didn't show that at the moment. I didn't show my hand in my face or my body language. Those are some little techniques. David could probably give a whole bunch on this space too. AD, I will let you speak to the maintenance side as you need to.

When it comes to recruiting for maintenance, this could be a completely separate topic. As you can only imagine, I'm extremely passionate about this. I have done it for many years. I have done a decent job at it. I have seen how as companies, we have to adapt and overcome situations. With the rise of the internet, it's one time and one click in submitting the resume.

Imagine that when you are an employer and you are hiring a person for maintenance, that person has the resume sent probably to 20, 30, or 50 different employers. A resume has a shelf life of 15 minutes to 2 hours at the most. If you can't make it a priority for you to drop everything else that you have and call that person as soon as the resume comes in, chances are that you will never be going to hear from them again. That is the first priority, getting them in.

Think about it like a salesperson. How do I make a sale? How do I cut the line and get in front of everybody else that is waiting in line? First of all, time heals the deal. Time to get them in and also time to make a decision on it. Make sure you have all the tools you need to make a decision or a contingent offer. We all understand background checks and all of that. Make a contingent offer on a spot if you have the right person. Don't overthink your decision. Don't think too much about, “Am I going to make the right or the wrong call?” We all made the wrong calls.

Recruiting is not a science. If recruiting were a science, everybody would follow and be successful at it. You go to be trial and error. The more interviews you do, the better you get at it. I have done thousands of interviews. I have certain things that work for me. When it comes to making a decision, you have to act fast whether you want that person or you don't want, especially if you want them.

Be ready to make an offer on the spot. Don't let them leave the room without a contingent offer. It is like in sales. When you go to buy a car at a dealership with a dealership, will a salesperson let you leave the room? They will do whatever is in their power so you won't leave the room until you make a commitment. You have to embrace the same mentality. We are doing sales when we are interviewing.

With a shortage of qualified personnel, it gets harder. It doesn't get any easier for us. If you are making the wrong decision, you could always right the wrong. Give the person a chance. If they are not going to work out, they are not going to work out. That is what disciplinary action and firing are for if it is not going to be working out. Don't get yourself tied up in that situation. Don't overthink. Overthinking and the more time you take are going to kill the deal for you. I hope that my answer was somehow helpful to you.

I have one more for you guys. When you are dealing with ownership groups that have issues with finances, what are some techniques that you have that could persuade them to handle the financial aspect of the operations without draining from the management fee?

I will speak to that. Damian that is a good question. That is one that affects operators and suppliers that are here. That is going to be the toughest challenge we are all going to face in 2023. Clients and owners are going to be potentially under pressure here in 2023 quite a bit. Interest rates are a real issue. You have to know what your client wants. They want their cake and eat it too.

I’m going to jump in a little bit deeper on that. Are they looking for occupancy? Are they looking for other income items to accelerate? Are they looking for you to slash expenses at every turn? The answer may be all of the above. You have to speak their level language as a communicator and as a leader to say, “These are the things that we are doing to achieve some of the goals that you have set out. These are some of the things that are important to do.”

You, your team, or your manager need to continue to show strength to your client that you are a trusted advisor, an experienced manager, and a leader in this space. Hopefully, they take your suggestion into consideration. That comes with confidence and also comes with presenting things in a way that is productive. Be careful of tone and other things that can be presented as negative or that they are not on board. The reality in 2023 is you are going to have to get creative.

Thank you so much for that insight.

It is going to be a tough one, but we will make it through and learn a lot along the way.

We have another hand that is raised out there, Tony. Jeffrey, why don't you go live and ask your questions, sir?

Adrian, I want to follow up a little bit on what you were talking about interviewing. I have had situations where you work against HR and as a leader and a manager, I feel I need to do it. I'm interviewing the last few applicants. One of them is clearly not qualified. In my case, I would like to go through and try to direct them in a way that they may be able to prepare for this job in the future. HR tells me, "No, answer the same questions. Go on and leave them alone. Don't say anything to them." I have gotten that conflict back and forth, which is difficult because it is against my nature. I like to try to be like, "You are not qualified. You need to take some additional courses. You are weak in electrical. If you want to be a maintenance tech, you got to know that well. You got to know what you are doing."

The guy has no experience. You ask a simple question, how do you change the three-way switch? If you can't even tell me that, it is okay. You need some help with these things. HR said, “No, you don't do that. You say, ‘Thank you very much. I appreciate it. You will be contacted back by HR.’” You put your notes in, and the HR calls and says, “We went to somebody else.” I always like to try to help him and ask, “There are things you might be able to do.” They may even be working for you. Sometimes people want to get promoted, but they are not quite ready. That has always been a tough one. I get some ideas from the group that may have come across that type of situation.

I will answer with a question. Do you know what the reasons are for doing that?

They said it has to do with being equal. They ask the same questions to everyone. They don't want you to say, “You are not qualified. They want you to ask the questions and make your comments back to HR. They will send the standard letter coming out, which is impersonal, saying, “We went with somebody else.” It is a standard letter, “We chose a different candidate. We are not proceeding with you at this point here.” I always like to try to help them. I got my hand slapped by HR for doing that once. I was like, “I will do it again.”

I will say a couple of things, but we may want to open this up. David has a lot of experience and training in this space. Jeffrey, it is a great statement that you make. I'm probably best known in my interviews for providing unsolicited advice in a constructive way and in a way that it sounds like what you have described, “These are some of the things that are going to help you.” A lot of candidates walk away from not potentially getting a job and wonder, "Why I didn't get it?" The best thing we could do as hiring managers is to be honest, at least at some point, whether it be in real-time in the interview or afterward, about why they missed that opportunity. David, do you have any thoughts on this? You interview for a living. You find some of the top talents throughout the country.

There are a lot of laws on interviewing. I have to be careful with what we say. At the same time, people do want feedback. If they are not qualified, they are not qualified. If it is not personal, you got to leave the personal stuff out, and you can always make suggestions.

This one happened to be a person who was related to a property manager. She wanted him to be hired at a sister property, but the guy wasn't qualified. She was pushing hard to the regional. I was the director of facilities. I'm doing the final interview. This guy was not qualified. I was trying to think, “This is what you may want to do. You may want to take some classes. Here are some places you can go to take additional classes.” I got my hand slapped and got a write-up for making a suggestion that he wasn't qualified and that this is how he can improve himself so he might be qualified. That is why I was like, “I have never been written up. This is weird.”

I will say this, David, that is a great point. We do have to be mindful of the laws and the legalities, and being too personal sometimes. We probably have all ridden that line because we are authentic people. We want to give help where we can. Your feedback was well-intentioned. It does sound like there is some political situation there and some relationships there that you had to be careful to run through.

All of us have the ability to assess where we put in our 9:00 to 5:00 every day. If there is minimal flexibility in your ability to give feedback, that is okay for you to have a robust discussion with your HR group to say, “Help me understand what I can and can't. My apologies if I overstepped the line here. That wasn't my intention. I was trying to help.”

It sounds like there were maybe some other relationships there that didn't help your situation. I appreciate the full disclosure on that, Jeff. You are trying to do the right thing. That comes down to us as hiring managers to be careful how we communicate these things. At the same time, it is important that we provide feedback to candidates that maybe aren't qualified. I haven't got every job I have applied for. I'm not sure if everyone here has as well. When you don't get that job, you like to know some reasons why. Not personal and not daggers, but you like to know professionally what you could do to try to get there. It sounds like you tried to convey that.



We are approaching the top of the hour. As part of our commitment to you, Tony and I will keep this for as long as you want us to. We are not rushing to stop because it has been an hour. I have been amazed by the feedback and engagement. I like to keep rolling. Tony, what do you say?

I'm good with it. I love the engagement. If you are sitting on a question, nervous to ask, or don't want to get on cam, I totally get it. Throw it in the chat, but now is your opportunity. I would like to one day meet all of you in person, but that may not be the case. That may be the case. We all go to similar conferences. Please, if you have something burning or something you want to get out and ask, there are no limitations now.

We have a hand raised. Donna Pellegrino, do you want to go on next?

Thanks, Adrian. I'm on the supplier side. As a leader, you get bombarded with suppliers all the time, promising the next best thing is going to change your whole business. As a leader, how do you decide what is innovative, something I should listen to, and other requests that you ignore? Is it about the salesperson's approach or the product itself? What moves your listening needle? This could be for any leader. If you are a leader in the multifamily space, what should I be listening to? If you are a sales supplier, how do you best get your pitch out there so somebody is going to listen? It could be applicable to either side.

Thanks for chiming in there. It is a question that I do get often offline with supplier friends and colleagues. I would actually attribute it to the third factor that you didn't note. Does my organization need your product? That is for me, my operational team, and organizational leaders to assess what we need and what we don't. If you are running a good organization, you should have some idea of what products and services you do need.

Sometimes it is not about either of what you presented. Is it about the pitch? What are you looking to dissect, the technology, or the product itself? It may be the wrong time. It may not be what we need at this time. If it is something we need, let me speak to that because that may be your follow-up question. What if it is a product you could benefit from? It’s either you don't know because it is innovative, or you don’t know the internal guts of your organization that well.

How I get approached a lot is, “You don't know what you don't know, Tony. You need me.” I like that courage. It is my lucky day that I got your email. I get it. On the other side, it is difficult to get in. AD will confirm this and why this call has been exciting for all of us, and many people have joined. On the sales and supplier side, this relationship word is always talked about. I'm not sure everybody on the supplier side, even the operator side, knows how to build those relationships in a dynamic way that's exponentially growing.

I want to use this as an example of what AD has done. Some of what I have been able to do is build this vast network of people and colleagues, not only in person but online. The audience is online. You can reach more people online. I don't have to tell anybody that it is a numbers game. The problem is what happens to me and many operators. As soon as we connect on LinkedIn or anywhere else, they are in my inbox.

The analogy of like, “Buy me a drink first.” Participate in the party a little bit more, and not only participate but provide value without the expectation of return. We are not selling anybody anything other than, “Join my company.” We are doing it because we are trying to help the community understand the things we are doing. AD, I don't think you are getting paid. I haven't seen a check from you.

We are giving up our time freely because we care for one another in this community of multifamily. When you do that, and you can grow in your influence and ability to do that, Donna, your clients or potential client operators are going to be more inclined to take your call or your email. If I see an email from somebody I know that I have had some interaction with, or they had given my life a bit of value or my professional life some value, I'm more inclined to open their email and let them know something.

What you are dealing with is this massive ghosting situation of it going into the email abyss, and never hearing from them again. I don't know if they hate me or they love me. All I know is they have ignored me, and that hurts the most.” It is about that relationship bill, but not in your most conventional way. If AD and I have done anything to show an example, it is how to leverage LinkedIn in an authentic and honest way to grow your network. All we have done is we tried to provide our thoughts, insights, and values freely. The love has been reciprocated on this call, and in other ways that we’ve experienced it.

AD is going through his own career thing in a matter of days, having strong considerations for amazing opportunities. It shows the impact of authentic networking. I would challenge the old conventional way of networking, this business hustle handshake, and it is about relationships. If it is, relationships that are the most long-lasting are the most self-sacrificing.

I have been married for twenty years. I’d like to think I'm good at it. The reality is the more I give to my wife, my kids, and my family, the more endeared and drawn they are to me. It works in the professional world as well. The more we give of ourselves and the more willing we are to be sacrificing to them, the more they are drawn to us.

I know you are out there, and you may be doing a lot of this. This is a high-level discussion about suppliers because I get asked this a lot like, “How do I get in the door?” It is not a door. It is a potential window, back door, or doghouse. You got to explore all avenues of entry and be willing and humble enough to do so.

That is a great answer. Thank you so much.

I saw a great comment from Lyla. Would you like to go live, Lyla, and make a comment?

I have been a social media manager for a long time. It can get spammy and gross out there. It depends on who you are listening to. A lot of people, over the years, have said, “Get out there. Get in front of as many faces as you can.” It always felt gross to me. I was a social worker for years before I transitioned into social media management. That is where my heart is. It is creating relationships. My biggest one is I have always said, “I don't sell anything. I create relationships.”

The other thing that we forget is how giving the LinkedIn community is, especially in multifamily. Everyone out there wants to help you. There are some people who do not, but they are the small minority. Everyone out there is willing to help. It is easy to go on and say, “This is my ideal customer. Does anyone have any tips for me?” You are going to be inundated with things that work for some people. Some you are going to be able to throw away and say, “That is not for me.” Some are going to feel authentic to you. That would be my thing. It is to create those relationships and don't be afraid to ask for help.

That’s an excellent point. Tony, you touched on a few things that are close to my heart. Personal branding, I try to help a lot of folks. One of the things that I suggest to them is we are all brands, whether we want it or not. Make a conscientious decision to build your own instead of allowing others to build or paint it for you. There is immense value in having a strong presence and personal brand. People are afraid. They were like, “This is just for the Kardashians.” There is no such thing. You could be an industry thought leader and influencer, but it takes a time commitment.

I'm going to share a personal story for some of you that don't know. I got laid off last Thursday. On Friday, I had six interviews. On Monday, I had five interviews. On Monday afternoon, I got a verbal offer, which turned into a written offer for the highest position that I had in my entire career. I haven't reached out to a single person. I had hundreds of people.

You are going to get us emotional, AD. We have been texting offline. You have been sharing some of these stories with me. I know it is emotional. I feel it too. A lot of you guys do as well. This community is real. It is full of real people that care. Some of us are new to the community, and some of us have been here a while. AD's story of in less than a week, being able to get a written offer signed, and I'm sure a start date soon is an example to all of you.

For both suppliers and those who may be looking to grow their careers, investing in this community in an authentic way that provides value without expectation of return is the best investment of your time and effort. It is the best ROI that you could possibly have in your career. We are just on the tip of the iceberg in identifying this. Don't feel like you are late to the game or don't feel like, “I don't post like Tony and AD every day. I'm way behind.” Now is the time for you to cultivate your voice that is out there.



I have had to navigate this perception of, “Tony is just doing this for Tony.” I have a family. I got to take care of myself and my family. I have pounded the pavement like you have AD to say that I'm not here for me. I'm here to help everyone else. Everyone else has helped me along the way. AD, it looks like you are composed. I don't know if you want to add anything.

Thanks for the break. It hit hard. In all honesty, it has been overwhelming. It is something unique. I don't have words. Unless you leave it, it is hard to describe it in words. We have a question from Jeffrey regarding CapEx projects. Would you like to go live and ask the question, sir?

Tony, this is something you might have an answer to. Do you think that ownership is going to come back and pull back on a lot of the CapEx projects that have been planned in 2023? If you don't agree, what is the best way to try to sell them? You can go in and say, “This water heater is six years old. If it busts, you got to do a lot more damage than replacing this one water heater.” I'm talking about the large ones, the 50 gallons commercial ones. You get those $10,000 to $15,000 replacements. Sometimes they don’t want to pull back because it is working now, but it is planned to be changed. What is the best route around that? The ownership sometimes was like, “I can see that $15,000, and I don't want to spend it now.”

I will answer your first question. Do I think they are going to pull back? The answer is yes. The second part of that question is if it is a necessity and a part of operating the units or the property. They are going to be open to that. They are going to ask for ten different proposals. They will still be open to spending what they need to keep the property operating. There is a small percentage of clients that maybe won't. The majority of clients, for the most part, understand they have to continue to operate these properties and fix things that are broken.

CapEx items, some of the big renovation projects that may be happening, many of them are going to pump the brakes and assess. Are they going to be able to get rent bumps from this in this market condition? If the answer is they are not certain, or their analytics are telling them they are not, they are numbers guys. They are simply going to pull back.

Their CapEx budgets on useful life said, “This should be done.” It could last for 1 or 2 years. You might get by, but what if it breaks? What if it is not?

In 2023, they are going to stretch that. Their investors and shareholders will support them in holding. In 2024 and 2025, we will be back at it. In 2023, you got to buckle down a little bit, and that is okay. That is the cycle.

I read a great comment from Charles. He is saying, “Relationship, get you conversations. They do not guarantee business. Point made. Does the organization need the product or service at this time?”

In these conversations both online and in person, as an operator, maybe the crew buys me a drink first. It is still building a relationship with me. By the dynamic already of you approaching me in your role and me in my role, I already know the subtext. I already know that your boss expects something of this interaction. You have to realize there is a wall up already. I already know what you are coming for. You have to figure out a way to authentically have those relationships and get that wall down a little bit more in an authentic way.

How to have a conversation in an authentic way? You have to live life. You have to be dynamic. You have to read all sorts of stuff. You got to know about the weather, sports, politics, technology, and all sorts of fun, little funky, and weird stuff conversation starters. Be interested and be curious about a whole bunch of stuff. Be willing to have a dynamic conversation that is interesting. At the end of the day, like we tell our sales consultants, "That is memorable."

Most of the interactions that I do have, unfortunately, are not as memorable as they would want them to be. I would never tell them that, but having a memorable conversation or interaction is a special skillset. Those who are successful in sales understand how to engage with somebody to make a memorable experience. You don't always get the sale. To have a memorable experience, there are a lot of components to that. A lot of it is authenticity. It is real-time reacting to real moments of what is happening and not going in hard with your sales pitch. It is not the way the world works now.

The next topic I want to touch on, Tony, is a long question. Bear with me right there. Multifamily has been a great investment for years. There is money put in. There are many people looking at multifamily, and it is only a limited amount of apartments to buy supplies. Whenever someone goes to acquire a property, they have to overbid 30 other groups to get a deal. In order to win the bid, you are going to be overpaying. What does that translate into?

You are going to have a tighter budget. You are going to have to raise rents at a higher rate or make rents higher. Everything that you do has a consequence and puts extra pressure on a staff, which is already short at a property, trying to figure out and keep things together. Here we are in a new acquisition. We are buying now, and we got to make the returns. All these circumstances I described add to the existing pressure and stress on the site teams.

It is a real situation. I have done polls on LinkedIn, and hundreds of people voted. It is a sentiment most people share that this is the norm. Companies and investors are overpaying for assets. When it comes to the asset to be handed to the operator, it gets hard and tough out there. I would like to ask you. What is your take on it? How can we better support our teams under these circumstances environment to be successful?

It is a great lean into the question. Hopefully, everyone understands. What is happening is on these proforma and these underwriting, clients are bidding on assets and oftentimes overpaying for an asset. What happens is they have to meet some unrealistic proforma. In doing that, it puts a lot of pressure on expenses, staff, and cutting staff.

I don't know if there are any prop tech folks on the line anymore, but they are going to wish they probably were still on with what I'm about to say. I'm not in anyone's full bullpen, but what their industry is offering and trying to support our industry with, in some ways, they are doing a good job, and in some ways, a little clunky. Optimizing and utilizing technology in the smartest way possible can help us create efficiencies in staffing and expense control.



I'm from Silicon Valley, California. I have a great love for technology. I understand in its truest form what it is supposed to do. It is supposed to provide support and efficiencies to human behaviors that we cannot do ourselves. What is a computer? It can think faster than you can. What technology can do is through the algorithms and the mathematical formulas that were put together, it can give you data and provide you with recommendations or information that you can make better decisions on.

As much as everyone is trying to pull back on their tech stack, what you need to be doing is evaluating your current tech stack. Are you utilizing your tech stack currently in the most optimal way? If anybody is on a prop tech that is still here, I will be honest. I don't want to speak for my company. I'm not speaking directly about RPM, but I'm going to say industry-wide.

Most of the industry's technology is not currently being used to full optimal usage. Our teams are resistant to taking on new tech because we haven't figured out the old tech, which the old tech is only two years old. We still haven't figured out how to use it best. That is why we are getting nervous about more costs and new tech because we still haven't even figured out the stuff that we rolled out during the pandemic. Let's be honest.

If you are a supplier hearing that, or anyone you know, share that with them to say, “If you are engaged with a company now, double back on them and see if they need some above and beyond training or support.” The answer is probably yes. They are going to say, “No, we are fine.” The reality is their answer is probably, “Yes, we do.”

If you are willing to offer that at no additional cost or find a low-cost way to provide that support to use your technology better, that is going to make everybody happy. Once the site teams understand the technology better, even regional levels, and start to see better results come from it, better efficiencies, potential cost savings, they elevate that up or bubble that up to clients that we have saved you a penny here and a penny there, clients love that and are happy with management groups. It makes management teams happy to know they are doing their job. They will shower that love back on the supplier to say, "Thank you for helping educate and teach me what I didn't know."

The expectation is that property management company training programs teach them all the nuances of the tech. We are moving too fast, and some companies are way too big. Training departments have all gone virtual. It is just not happening. I didn't expect to go down that rabbit hole. The reality is I have unloaded on you some industry secret that it is not about the new tech. It is about optimizing and utilizing the current tech better.

I like to stay on a topic a little bit, if you don't mind, Tony. One of the aspects is that COVID has created a situation where we have been inundated by tech because we couldn't interact in person, so virtual towards this virtual. Everything is virtual. A lot of companies took the opportunity to build a product. Now that the pandemic is over, there is such a huge offer of tech out there. Tech that millions of dollars were invested in. Everybody feels the pressure to sell.

On the operator side, how do you properly vet technology and all those techs that are coming at you? Share a few tips with us. What are you looking for? The second question will be about support. If you are the end-user or the beneficiary of those techs, what would you like to see from the tech companies offering from a support perspective after that sale has been made? What is some real and meaningful support for the end user that could make a difference for them?

We all know what happened during the pandemic. We were told we need all this stuff that is going to help our properties survive the pandemic. In some markets, it helped. We were quick to sign contracts and bring in a lot of stuff that we didn't even frankly understand. My experience in talking to a lot of peers and colleagues has been that a lot of the tech was in the beta phase and not fully ready, but we are in a pandemic so jump in. We will figure it out on the fly. We will figure out how to have support and resources, and tweak the bugs in real time in the midst of a pandemic. I think that happened. It’s not all, but I'm stereotyping the scenario. It was a whirlwind and a hurricane situation.

To your question, AD, about how our company or how do I evaluate tech? I always work backward from the need. Are we or are we not meeting our expectations? Is there a technology, support, or product out there that can help us meet those expectations? You have to unpack the technology. The problem is in the multifamily business, we are operators for the most part. We are suppliers.

We’re not all tech-savvy. There are many on this call, but we could all probably be dangerous enough to ask some good questions. The reality is we have to defer to our IT divisions and others that are subject matter experts in this space and make sure they understand how operations work and how they can help us understand the technology to say, “Do we need this?” If the answer is yes, then explore it and continue to unpack it.

My advice to operators is don't rush to the altar. Take a little bit of time to unpack it. Get some references. Get some other things. Ask tough questions, and get people in the room that know tough questions to ask. As operators, even senior-level operators, this isn't our love language. This isn't our skillset. We have been in operation for 20 to 30 years. We haven't been in tech. Tech is a relatively new thing. Five years ago, prop tech folks arrived and said, “You need us.” We were like, “I think we do. I'm not sure, but it sounds good.”

The reality is we did. Multifamily has always been a bit antiquated. We are getting up to speed quickly, and it is exciting. There are opportunities. Unfortunately, it is getting crowded quickly. The pandemic had much to do with that. That is where we are. Much of what I said, I think we need you guys. We don't know if we have utilized all the current tech we have. We need to do a better job of utilizing that as well.

That is my two cents. I love prop tech. There is a great place for it in our industry. Our industry has been a little long in the tooth, as they say. I'm excited for us to modernize and sophisticate. Our clients are expecting that as well. Partnering with prop tech and those in this industry to figure out how to get us more cutting-edge and more efficient is going to be key to surviving 2023. It is a mixed bag. There are some on the supplier prop tech side that are nervous about 2023. If you unpack it a little bit based on some of the things we said, there may be some real opportunity there.

There is a great comment from Jeffrey. Jeffrey, would you like to go live with your comment?

We always had a group that was more technologically advanced that liked the software and got into it. As a company, we would meet when we added something new. We added Salesforce Lightning to Yardi to work our work orders. When we first came out with it, we didn't just dump it onto the Yardi and say, “Let's start working on it.” It was a different type of software. As everyone knows, Yardi is completely customizable. We always had a small group. We have a test database that we use for training, and also the tech. Every time we get any piece of new software, any update goes through the test database. Our group would go through it and put it through the phases.

If I were in facilities and work orders, I would run a bunch of work orders, turns, and different parts of it for pricing. I would run it through myself, some of my service managers, and techs using the iPads in the field. They would run through it. Did it work or not? It’s not a lot, but it was enough for them to get 1 or 2 times run through it. We would get that feedback from the group. We would then report to upper management. They get back into the IT department, get your Director of IT, and get down to work that way. We always had a group that would test it. We found it worked well.

That is a wise organization to have, and the prop tech supplier side appreciates that. There is nothing worse than going to a bunch of operators or site teams that have no idea what technology is because they know what the answer is going to be like, “I don't think we need that.” The reality is you probably do. You just don't know you do.

Tony, I would like to switch over to the influencer topic. I'm going to venture to say that I'm very involved. I spend a lot of time on a platform like LinkedIn. You are the most prominent higher-up executive in our field, and it is out there all the time. Since you joined RPM, I'm seeing an increase in engagement for them as a company. The attention you are getting and the interaction benefit your company a great deal.

I made a prediction for 2023. I said that 2023 is going to be the year when management companies are going to look for people that actually have the audience and attention right there to partner with them to help them to promote businesses. It is influencer marketing. I wanted to point out this is not the Kardashians carrying a bottle of shampoo and buying it. It is a different thing. It is the buy-in. For example, someone like you with your expertise could look at a product and say, “This could benefit the industry.” You could vouch for the product or say, "This would change the industry for the better.” Do you see that this could become a trend for management companies in 2023 or in the future?

I only live my own life. I see what's happening in the levels of engagement. In some ways, I know why and in some ways, I don’t. There is an opportunity for companies to recognize shining stars, unicorns, or people that do an amazing job at what they do and seem to have additional intangible skillsets in some ways that can help in different ways. People want to work with great people. Some of us are a little nervous or afraid of putting ourselves out there because of rejection or lack of engagement.

My main purpose on this platform initially was recruiting, but in time, it was to show everyone in this industry what I believed about myself. It has turned into a blessing and a curse. It’s more a blessing than a curse. I never expected it to turn into what it is now. We now live online more than ever before. The metaverse is real. We will only continue in the future that our communities are now more found online. I don't think this would have happened if the pandemic didn't happen. This is a normal thing for us to come together like this. We still feel connected.

For professionals, the current platform that has been able to take advantage of that is LinkedIn. People like you, I, and a few others here have decided to participate in that conversation regardless of engagement, what happens, pushback from our companies, or people judging us. We have had to make that own decision in our mind to say, "I don't care about that. I'm going to give less Fs about that stuff because I need to say it for myself." I also think there are others that would like to hear it.

I do think that companies are going to explore this. I don't think they know exactly how to structure it. I want you to do actual work. I don't want you to just come on board as a name and a face, go shake some hands, and hold some babies. I need you to do a job. There is a level of street cred that is important to those who are influencing the industry.

A lot of you guys have seen me or known me for a long time. I'm not a flash in the pan like, “Who is this guy all of a sudden quoting himself?” I have been around the block for a little while. I participated in the party for a while. I have been on LinkedIn for 12 or 13 years when it was a ghost town. The pivot that I saw was in the pandemic. Everyone joined that online community.

The reason why I elevated my voice is that it was for me. I was working through my fears and anxieties about what was happening. To be a better leader, I needed to be more courageous. I shared my journey at that time in an optimistic way. I was trying to inspire myself. I found an audience that enjoyed the inspiration.

I do think they are looking at people like me and you. What is going on there? Is there any value there? If I could share with everyone how many DMs I get a day about people that want to work for my company, pretty easily, I could argue that there is a lot of value there. It is exciting uncharted waters ahead. I'm here for it. I'm here to figure it out with all of you. I encourage you if you have been hesitant or nervous about participating in the conversation online because of judgment, either internally in your company or externally, if the pandemic has taught us anything, it is to care less about stuff like that. It has taught me that.

Somebody asked me what my resolution for 2023 is. I said it was to give less Fs. That is what I'm doing. There are certain things you have to care about, your job, your family, and the people around you. That has nothing to do with people, but those who are going to throw shade and interpret your motivation to be something other than what it genuinely is, I can't lose sleep or even think about them for much longer.

The more visible that you and I become, and some of the other ones, the percentage of shade throwers grows. At the same time, the percentage of Fs I give also diminishes. It is part of being visible. It is part of potentially what we are now embarking on, you, I, and a few others. We are willing to embark on it, test the waters, and see what is ahead for the sake of everyone, not just ourselves.

Before we move to the next question, Tony, I do want to say to all of you right here. There are still nineteen of you with us. We appreciate you taking the time. This is not your usual 30-minute webinar. You dedicated time to be part of this experience with Tony and me. I would love to hear from you after the conversation about what topics and guests you would like to see on the show. I have two more live events lined up with amazing guests coming up. I like to hear from you. I like to keep this going, and make this a place for all of us to meet, and talk about stuff that matters to us.

It is not about Tony or myself. It is about all of you. I don't do this for personal gain. Tony doesn't do that for personal gain. We wanted to be here, offer our time, and answer your questions. There is stuff out there that you might not have anyone to talk about with. Bring them over here, and let's make it part of the conversation. It is important.

Seeing all your faces and names there, for you guys to hang out with us helps, especially on the operator side. These are some trusted partners. There is a handful of suppliers here. When I need somebody or a head hunter, I call on David. Whoever, Tara, all of you guys on the supplier side as well. This is how you build relationships, and you guys are willing to give up your time.

I also don't think you are getting paid to be here. You are getting paid to do your job, but to add value to your career and build a network, I don't think there is a check in the mail for that yet, and neither are we. AD and I wanted to be the conduit to bring you guys together to have a robust discussion. I apologize. I might have monopolized much of the talking. In time, I hope this grows into more of a community-based discussion. If we can be the conduit to help start some of that, that feels like a win for me.

Charles, you are next, sir. Go live with your question.

Thank you very much. I have enjoyed this thoroughly. I wasn't sure what to expect. I just said, “Yes, I will be there.” I'm glad I did. Going back to technology, you mentioned existing technology, and we are not leveraging it at all. It is sitting there. I have a question about the role that LMS plays in that. I know it is great for onboarding. It is good for residual training. I know that you can do and require too much out there. As far as tech goes, adoption, and increased functionality, have you applied that? Are you using LMS as a tool to combat some of that lack of adoption or use of the functionality?

We have tried some. There is a massive opportunity to engage with the LMS to help support the training side of things, and be able to provide tools and resources in real-time technologically for teams and others. There is an opportunity there. LMS sometimes is not rolled out appropriately to site teams or whoever may need the library of information that is available to them, and understand how to navigate some LMS. That is a technological obstacle to overcome.

There is a lot to unpack a bit there. I don't think there is any easy answer, but it can be an incredible resource to support the site team’s learning and training. It doesn't always have to be hands-on. It goes from the pitch room to understanding the technology, vetting it, adopting it, integrating it, and training it on the LMS. That is where it lives. That is where the training should be evergreen and live in that space, in my opinion. I can only speak from my experiences, but I'm not sure if it is being used to its full capabilities just like the tech isn't.

It is another opportunity for those who see. The invention is born from these opportunities. As the times get tough ahead, pulling back and having to be purposeful and intentional in what you are doing, a lot of opportunities in different ways are going to present themselves, especially for smart people like you guys that are paying attention.

Are you going to be at TAA or Apartmentalize?

I am going to be at both. I have the invitation to speak at NAA. I will be on a panel at TAA. Please reach out and let's connect. Nowadays, when I show up, it is like, “You are real.” I am, but it is great to see everybody in person. I love human interactions in person.

Thank you.

Tony, I want to save some questions for the next live. I don't want to exhaust all the questions. I can't thank you enough. There are nineteen of us still here, and it has almost been two hours. We could have gone forever, time permitting. I'm certain we will revisit this. We should do a continuation and pick different topics.

Hopefully, we will get more of you to join us here because it is important. We are creating a platform for us to have real conversations. I'm varnished with no fluff and no empty words or slogans, just real conversations. If we don't start having the conversations, how are we going to expect to resolve all the challenges or overcome the challenges we are facing? It doesn't just take Tony and me. It takes all of us to come together, use our brains, and come up with the best answers.

David, maybe you have a question. For any of you guys that think that I have a ghostwriter or anything like that, hopefully, I proved to you that I have been in this business for some time and I know a few things. I could be operationally dangerous still enough. If anybody is skeptical and you meet them like, “Is that Tony guy knows what he is talking about?” You’d be like, “Yes, I heard him talk. That guy was willing to go off the cuff unscripted.” David, I see your hand up.

Tony, I was going to ask you that. Are you using ChatGPT to write those LinkedIn posts?

I got a ghostwriter. I got a whole social media team. I don't even know what they put out there. I’m just kidding.

I want to go back to Damian's point about the whole interview situation and hiring somebody that might not work out. Sometimes we can do all the background work and ask all the right questions if the person doesn't work out. That is why it is important to be nice to the people you interview, to be nice to everybody, and to be kind because we have a lot of clients that go, “This person didn't work out that we hired a few months ago. Can we go back to this other candidate that you had and hire them? Can you call them back?” If I was not pleasant in that feedback, they would be like, “I never want to work for that company.”

The interview goes both ways, David. Candidates are interviewing companies and people are interviewing them just like we are interviewing candidates. For us to think it is anything different is ego-driven. “Are you good enough to join my organization?” It’s like, “This is what we need. Do you have the skillsets to do this? Tell me some of your experience. Hopefully, you like me and what our organization is about.” Ultimately, people work for people. If they have a bad interaction with somebody that is interviewing them, they are not interested. Even if you call them back, they were like, “I think I'm okay. You seem like a jerk. I wouldn't care to work for you.”

I will tell you a funny story. As a young twenty-something actor, I was told by an acting coach, “What may get you the role in an audition is not so much your talent, skill, or whatever the case is. It is you not being a jerk to the front desk gal or guy. Make friends with them.” What happens is that the casting director walks you out of the room to your car. What do they say over to Brian at the desk? “Brian, what do you think?” “He was a jerk to me.”

True character is shown in how you treat somebody that has nothing to offer you. That is important for all of us to remember that. I love going onsite and hanging out with porters. We had a survey go out, and for the team that had the highest participation, I offered half a day to clean up dog crap for the day. It could help them and it allows that team to get a kick out of seeing their guy out there picking up the stinky mess. It is also to show that I'm also willing to do the dirtiest of jobs and that I'm no better than them.



Tony, before giving you the opportunity to say some closing thoughts. I wanted to say to all of you that we have a couple of more events already lined up live. We have the great Stephanie Anderson coming up on February 9th, 2023. I would love for you to be part of this experience. I like to grow this to make it a usual thing at least twice a month, if not every week.

We are testing to see if there is interest. Hopefully, there is. I think it proves that today. We could make this an amazing team for all of us to meet and have real conversations. I'm going to have Kara Rice and Jen Piccotti from Swift Bunny on the 14th of February, 2023. Stay in touch. I love to have you come back here for those conversations you wouldn't want to miss. Tony, any closing thoughts?

You guys have been here almost two hours now. We thank you for everything. I hope to be able to meet with you guys in person at one of these conferences. Feel free to direct message me. You guys all have a direct line to me. Remember what I said about pushing your product too hard. Connect with me in an authentic way, and I will reciprocate that. It is great to see all your faces and your names there. AD, we may be onto something. I appreciate you using your platform to help facilitate this. I'm thankful and honored that you asked me to be the first guest.

Thank you all of you for bearing with us for almost two hours here. I hope to see you guys back here soon. Have a great rest of the day.

Important Links

• Tony Sousa - LinkedIn
• TouchPoints
• RPM
• Swift Bunny